Government should not force Catholics to observe Muslim and Iglesia ni Cristo holidays

Today is the Feast of the Birth of Our Lady, but here in Ateneo de Manila University we are having classes. The reason is because there are already too many class hours missed because of government imposed holidays:

MANILA, Philippines – President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo declared September 7 and 21 as non-working holidays, Press Secretary Cerge Remonde said Friday night. Arroyo declared Monday next week a national day of mourning for Iglesia ni Cristo Executive Minister Eraño “Ka Erdy” Manalo, who will be buried that day, Remonde said. “All flags will be flown at half-mast,” he said in a text message to reporters.

On September 21, the Muslim Filipinos will be marking Eid’l Fitr, or the end of holy month of fasting, Ramadan, according to Remonde.(Philippine Daily Inquirer)

I think it is time to put some quantifiable measures on determining whether a day should be a national holiday or not.  I shall propose the following two parameters:

  1. The number of those celebrating the holy day is 50 percent or greater of the national population
  2. Those celebrating the holy day must leave their work/school offices.

I propose that these two parameters must hold in order for the Government to make a reasonable declaration of a holy day as a holiday.

Catholics in the Philippines comprise about 80 % of the national population.  Members of Iglesia ni Cristo are 2.3 % and Muslims are 5%.  So the only possible national holidays in the Philippines are those of Catholics.  Some may call this unfair.  But look at it this way: if Muslims or INC leave their work to celebrate their holy days, the Philippine government can still function. But if Catholics leave their work to celebrate their holy days, the Philippine government grinds to a halt. So the government has no choice but to declare a holiday.

Rules 1 and 2 are applicable to any country.  For countries with Muslim majority like Indonesia or Saudi Arabia, the government should not declare Catholic holy days as holidays but only those of Muslims. For countries with Orthodox majority like Russia, the government should not declare Catholic holy days as holidays but only those of Orthodox, e.g. Catholics and Orthodox Christians does not celebrate Easter at the same day because Catholics use the Gregorian Calendar while the Orthodox use the Julian Calendar.  (The INC is still a minority in any country.)  Otherwise, if we try to accommodate all holy days of minority religions in a country or city as legal holidays, it would arrive at a point where most days of the year are holidays. This is not good for business or for education.

Christmas, Holy Week, and All Saints Day are legitimate Philippine holidays by force of tradition after centuries of Spanish Colonial Government.  By tradition, each person goes to his or her family during these days, even if the person works in Manila and his or her family is in the province.  Today, September 8, the Birthday of Our Lady, there is no tradition of leaving work during this day, so the government may not declare it as a holiday, though all Catholic schools may call it a holiday.

So what should be a reasonable government position regarding holy days of Muslims and Iglesia ni Cristo.  Adherents to these religions may be allowed to celebrate their holy days with work pay; if they choose to work during their holy days, they will be given double their work pay for that day, which is the standard rule for Philippine holidays.  But in no way must the government impose these holy days as holidays for the pre-dominantly Catholic Philippines.  This is simply not just.  If the NEDA (National Economic Development Authority) revoked the Sep 7 and 21 holidays for BPO and Electronics sectors for economic reasons, then why can not the government revoke these holidays also for the Catholic sector for religious reasons?

Catholic institutions, like the Jesuit-run Ateneo de Manila University, will have added number of holidays: secular holidays and Catholic Feast days.  If the government imposes additional holidays which are properly celebrated by other religions, the first reaction by Catholic institutions is to scale down the number of their own holidays.  Thus, for example, today, the Birthday of Our Lady, should be a school-wide holiday and no classes should be made during this day, like all Catholic schools in the Philippines.  But because of these new holidays, we have to make Sep 8 a working holiday.

I think Mama Mary is very sad.  What do we call the Ateneo Basketball Team?  It is the Hail Mary Squad.  What is Ateneo Alma Mater Song?  The Song for Mary:

We stand on a hill between the earth and sky.
Now all is still where Loyola’s colors fly.
Our course is run and the setting sun ends Ateneo’s day.
Eyes are dry at the last goodbye; this is the Ateneo way.

Mary for you! For your white and blue!
We pray you’ll keep us, Mary, constantly true!
We pray you’ll keep us, Mary, faithful to you!

Down from the hill, down to the world go I;
rememb’ring still, how the bright Blue Eagles fly.
Through joys and tears, through the laughing years,
we sing our battle song:
Win or lose, it’s the school we choose;
this is the place where we belong!

Mary for you! For your white and blue!
We pray you’ll keep us, Mary, constantly true!
We pray you’ll keep us, Mary, faithful to you!

This is very sad.  This is very, very sad.

About Quirino M. Sugon Jr
Theoretical Physicist in Manila Observatory

35 Responses to Government should not force Catholics to observe Muslim and Iglesia ni Cristo holidays

  1. lee says:

    Quirino M. Sugon Jr – kapal naman ng mukha mo , bakit kala mo kayo lang me karapatan mag holiday,hoy hindi lahat katoliko , kapal mo

  2. lee says:

    kupal ka Quirino M. Sugon Jr ,I think Mama Mary is very sad – hahahahaha, di buhay si mama mary at di ka nya naririnig , paranf tanga ka lang , di ako iglesia at di rin ako muslim , pero kupal ka

  3. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Lee, government should allow all religions to celebrate their holy days with all the pay benefits for non-working holy days, with the same number of non-working holidays per religion to be fair. But what is a holy day for muslims or INC is not a holy day for Catholics and vice-versa. To each his own. But it is a simple fact that Catholics are majority in the Philippines. If Muslims or INC leave their work to celebrate their holy days, the Philippine government can still function. But if Catholics leave their work to celebrate their holy days–Christmas, Holy Week, and All Saints Day, the Philippine government grinds to a halt. So the government has no choice but to declare a holiday.

    For countries with Muslim majority, I say that the Muslim government should not declare Catholic holy days as holidays but only those of Muslims. For cities with INC majority, I also say that the city government should not declare Catholic holy days as holidays but only those of INC. Otherwise, if we try to accommodate all holy days of minority religions in a country or city as legal holidays, it would arrive at a point where most days of the year are holidays. This is not good for business or for education.

    This is not being kupal. This only being reasonable and just.

  4. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Lee, you cannot prove that Mama Mary is dead. But the Catholic Church proclaims the Dogma of the Assumption of Mary: “Mary, the immaculate perpetually Virgin Mother of God, after the completion of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven.” (Pope Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus, 1950) :

    “The early Christians were very careful to keep the relics of saints and martyrs, even if it involved great risk (like trying to retrieve the remains of those who were eaten by lions). They did this out of great reverence for the body as a member of Christ and temple of the Holy Spirit (see I Corinthians 6:15, 19). Because Christians took care of the remains of the saints, we know where the bones of Saint Peter, Mary Magdalene and many other New Testament believers are buried. But where are the remains of the Virgin Mary? There is no record of anyone ever claiming to possess the body of the Mother of Jesus. ” (http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/5743/marian8.html)

    “Why would God take Mary into heaven like that? Why not? He took Enoch and Elijah into heaven without them ever tasting death (2 Kings 2:11; Hebrews 11:5); he raised many righteous Jews from the dead at Jesus’ resurrection (Mt 27:52-53), and He has promised to rapture up both living and dead believers at the end of time (1 Thess 4:16-17). Why wouldn’t Jesus do the same for His Mother, the woman whom He is bound to honor by His own Law? As we have seen, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. Why would God allow this sacred Ark to rot in the grave? It is not fitting that the body which was sanctified to bear God Incarnate should see corruption. So God took the New Ark into heaven, where we see her in Revelations 11:19-12:1.” (http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/5743/marian8.html)

  5. Roxanne says:

    Lee, Mama Mary would be very sad indeed. See, we are all Mary’s children though we may be freemasons, muslims, protestants, or from Iglesia ni Cristo. She intercedes, provides and cares for us even if we do not acknowledge or recognize her. Mama Mary makes no distinction in her maternal heart and she loves all her children equally — though she loves more dearly and watches more closely those still far away from her and from God.

  6. What is sad is this:

    1. People using vulgarities rather than addressing the issues at hand.
    2. Politicians using holidays as an excuse for being politically correct.

  7. mama mary says:

    HAHAHAHA

    MAMA MARY…

    HAPPY BIRTHADAY!!!!

    by the way how old is she???????????????????????

  8. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Mama Mary is the Mother of Jesus. The Fourth Commandment says: “Honor your Father and Mother.” Jesus honors His Mother, Mary. She was beside Him in the wedding at Cana (Jn 2). She must then also be beside Him in His glory in heaven in the same way as Bathsheba, the Queen Mother, sat at the right hand of her son, King Solomon (1 Kngs 2:19) And He will not be pleased if anyone dishonors her. I am sure you would not like other people to make fun of your mother, even your mother’s picture. So why do you make fun of Jesus’s Mother? You love Jesus but hate His Mother? If you truly love Jesus, you must also love His Mother.

  9. Quirino, your blog is being visited by all types of people… by sensible people and by douche bags. Great way to educate! Suggestion: Correct spelling will be the first lesson. HAHAHAHA!!! (P.S.: Don’t forget the punctuation marks.)

  10. Manuel says:

    Dear sir,

    You have basically argued that holidays should be decided on the basis of the “majority constituency”, and that is, I think, the most problematic thing about the argument. There is a difference between saying that the Philippines has a majority Catholic population, on the one hand, and saying that the Philippines is a Catholic country, on the other hand. The first is true, the second is not. The Philippines has no state religion, and separation of Church and State is an inviolable principle in the 1987 Constitution.

    When you say that the State has “no choice” but to make Catholic holydays as public holidays because there are many Catholics, you use the numbers game. But the State does not honor all Catholic holydays (December 8 is a holyday of obligation among Filipino Catholics, but it is not a public holiday). So, the basis of declaring holidays is not really the majority that follow a specific religion, but the commemoration of important events in the life of the nation. The fact that the State honors Catholic holydays means that Catholicism is allowed a space in the public sphere (because of its role in nation-building, probably). But it does not have to be so just because Catholics are the majority. And besides, if the Catholic religion is recognized because of its contribution to the public good, then why not recognize Islam as well (which claims about 10% of the population)? In fact, if the State aims to be consistent, it SHOULD recognize Islam’s holydays as well. Fair is fare.

    When you say that the daily running of government and business stops because Catholics celebrate holydays, I really find it hard to believe you. As I said, the State may recognize Catholic holydays, but it does not have to. In case the government decides to abolish, for instance, existing Catholic holydays as public holidays, then Catholic citizens, like the rest of their non-Catholic counterparts, are required to go to work. They will then have to attend their church services (and be exempted for, say 3 hours, from work), and then return to work immediately. This is what is practiced in the US.

    Another thing, do you really think that all Catholics celebrate their holydays in a purely religious/spiritual way? How many Catholics actually go to church on Good Friday (there is no obligation to attend church services for this day, as you know), Christmas, or New Year? The Holy Week is not only a time to reflect on Christ’s Passion; increasingly, it is also the time for outings and vacations for most people. Christmas and New Year are also occasions for family reunions. If ever people will object to the State’s withdrawal of these public holidays, they will object not only for purely religious reasons, but socio-cultural reasons as well. The socio-cultural reasons may exist independently of the religous reasons; these two have lives of their own.

    Arguing for Catholic holydays as public holidays simply because Catholics are a majority is an instance of religious bullying. It’s like telling minority faiths in the Philippines that their religious business is their own business because they are a minority. Not only is this incompatible with a secular democracy like the Philippines (whether or not we are a secular democracy in practice does not really matter; that is what the Constitution says), but I cannot imagine Christ himself bullying others like that. It is simply revolting. Such argument should have no place in our national life, and in Catholic religious life, one may also hope. Is the latter possible? Yes, it is. Only if Catholics in this country will care to give it a try.

    May the Lord give you peace.

  11. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Manuel, I only have two rules for declaring holidays which is applicable to any country: (1) The number of those celebrating the holy day is 50% or more of the population and (2) those who celebrate the holy must leave their work. You may have forgotten rule 2.

    Your basis of declaring holidays is difficult to define precisely: commemoration of important events in the life of the nation. When is an event important? Who decides what events are important? In an oligarchy, a handful of powerful men and women decides what holy days are holidays. But Philippines is not an oligarchy but a democracy. In Philippines, one person equals one vote. So if you are going to have national elections on which events are important to the life of the nation, you can be assured that it would be Christmas (Christmas music already starts airing even at October), Holy Week, and All Saints Day, because Philippines is a predominantly Catholic nation. Muslim and Iglesia ni Cristo holidays will not have the required number of votes so their holy days will not be celebrated as holidays. But if you go to Indonesia and make the same elections, the winning holidays will all be holy days of Muslims. And Catholics in Indonesia would certainly not object to that. This is democracy.

    May the Lord also grant you peace.

  12. eh, pano ba yan. Sisihin mo c PGMA bat nya ginawang Holiday ang Sept. 7. hahahaha

  13. Manuel says:

    Dear sir,

    I appreciate your respectful reading and commenting on my post. Just a few things…

    First, yes, I agree with you that there can be some difficulty with what is deemed as important in the life of the nation. The Philippines is a young nation. But the solution you are proposing (again, by the numbers game) is not the solution for it. In a democracy, the votes that are cast by citizens as part of their duty to their country are only used to elect public officials (elections), and to decide on the binding force of a new constitution and other matters (plebiscite). The fact that the majority of the electorate is Catholic does not warrant that only their holidays are given public recognition by the State. I would like to repeat that, as far as the 1987 Constitution is concerned, the Philippine State is secular, and the principle of the separation of Church and State is inviolable. I would also like to argue that selecting public holidays is the mandate of the State as an institution in society – and not directly by the electorate. You say that “Muslim and Iglesia ni Cristo holidays will not have the required number of votes so their holy days will not be celebrated as holidays. But if you go to Indonesia and make the same elections, the winning holidays will all be holy days of Muslims. And Catholics in Indonesia would certainly not object to that. This is democracy.” But the thing is, this is NOT democracy. In democracies, people do not vote which holidays should be honored in their calendars, either by elections or by plebiscite; that is highly irregular and simply unheard of.

    Second, I did not forget that Catholics who celebrate holydays need to refrain from work – it is just that it is immaterial to the discussion. The obligation to refrain from servile work on Sundays and holydays of obligation is a Catholic obligation – the secular State (and other non-Catholic religions) have nothing to do with it. Besides, if that is the case, then why does the Catholic electorate not insist that December 8 should be a public holiday in the Philippines because they have to stop working that day for religious reasons? And why do Catholics not object that Good Friday is a public holiday, when there is actually NO obligation to refrain from servile work at that day?

    Third, if you do some research, it may be of interest to you that almost all countries, even those where Catholics are only a minority, celebrate at least one Catholic holyday of obligation as a public holiday. Only Islamic countries (and not even all of them), China, Thailand and Vietnam do not do so. Malaysia, which is known as a Muslim country, celebrates Christmas as a public holiday. And even Indonesia (which you have cited in your hypothetical situation), a country that has at least 205 million (86%) out of 240 million people professing Islam, includes Good Friday, the Ascension of Jesus Christ (which is not even a public holiday in the Philippines) and Christmas in their roster of public holidays. You say that “…if you go to Indonesia and make the same elections, the winning holidays will all be holy days of Muslims.” Well, it appears that they did not vote on their public holidays, for how can 3 Catholic holydays be included in the Indonesian public holiday calendar if Catholics are only 3% of the population? You continue: “…And Catholics in Indonesia would certainly not object to that. This is democracy.” But the thing is, if ever the Indonesian government scraps these 3 as public holidays, Catholics there have all the reasons to object, because even if they are a minority, they are still citizens of that country, and their holydays deserve a place in the national consciousness. That IS democracy.

  14. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Manuel, thank you, too, for being sober. I agree that it is the mandate of the state to declare public holidays and holidays are not up for voting. I think voting will not be necessary if we have census data on the number of members of each religion.

    I prefer that the state does not declare holy days as holidays by its sheer authority alone, though it can do so. I prefer that holidays are first celebrated from the grassroots level by individual communities and when the number of persons celebrating the holidays make up a sizable chunk of the national population (my rule of thumb is 50%, but you may like to lower this), then the government recognizes the popular will and declares the holiday. In other words, I prefer the bottom-to-top approach rather than top-to-bottom approach.

    I stand corrected on the celebration of Christmas in Indonesia. Thank you.

    I think it is a good sociological research problem to measure the political influence of a particular religion on a secular state:

    1. Divide the number of holy days of a particular religion recognized as public holidays by the state by the total number of religious public holidays of the state. Call this ratio as the holiday index for each religion.
    2. Divide the number of members of a particular religion in the state with the total population of the state. Call this ratio as the membership index.
    3. Divide the holiday index by the membership index. Call this ratio as the influence magnifier index.
    4. If the magnifier index is 1, the influence of the particular religion is only proportional to the number of its members. If the magnifier index is less (greater) than 1, the particular religion has lesser (greater) influence in proportion to the number of its members.
    5. Compare the magnifier indexes of several religions for different countries for different years.

    My hypothesis is that for 2009, the Muslims and Iglesia ni Cristo have an influence magnifier index greater than 1 and the Catholic Church has an influence magnifier index less than 1.

    Best wishes.

  15. Joel C. Lopez says:

    Quirino M. Sugon Jr – post your reason on holiday if you are the president of the state, but for now you have choice rather than to accept. and accept your hoiliday premium.

  16. checkmatepawn2 says:

    tama. hindi dapat magkaroon ng INC orporated holidays.

    sa mga muslim pwede naman. deserve naman nilang magkaroon ng ramadan. dahil isang araw lang naman yun, at higit sa lahat ang islam ang kauna unahang relihiyon sa Pilipinas. hindi naman tayo pinupwersa na magutom di ba.

    kung ang INC orported ay magkakaron ng holiday, e di pati adventist, el shadai, born again, at madami pang ibang kulto na kailangan bigyan ng holiday pag namatay ang numumuno sa kanila.

    isa pa bakit kailangan pang bigyan ng holiday ang isang taong nagpapakalat ng kasinungalingan.

    hindi ba kasinungalingan na kristyano ka pero hindi naman dyos si Jesus.

    kasinungalingan ang taong nagsasabi na Iglesia ni Cristo lang na tinatag ni Felix Manalo ang maliligtas.

    nasa bible ba yun. wala.

    ano ang dahilan kung bakit kailangan mong i declare ang pagkamatay ni Erdy. Ang isang taong walang bilang at pinagkakakitaan ang mga kapwa nyang kulto.

    Vote

    so hindi humihiwalay ang INC orporated sa Gobyerno. Hindi rin sila lumalabag sa constitution ng Pilipinas. Unang una bawal sa INCorporated ang lumaban sa Gobyerno, why, di ko alam. pangalawa hindi kayo relihiyon, kulto. pangatlo mayroon kayong block voting, para magkaroon kayo ng importansya sa namumuno sa gobyerno, hindi sa constitution.

    Dec. 8 ay holiday pa rin. hindi mo naman kailangan hindi pumasok o sabihin ni Gloria na non-working holiday ito. tsaka ang pinaka importante e 80 percent ng buong Pilipinas ay katoliko. ibig sabihin. lalaban tayo kung saka sakaling gagaguhin tayo ng namumuno sa gobyerno. at higit sa lahat masaya pa ring tumira sa Pilipinas kahit puno ng corrupt officials ito.

    isipin mo na lang kung 80 percent nito ay INC orporated.

    walang pasko

    walang fiesta.

    walang birthday.

    ano lang 95th anniversary ng lokohan at kamatayan ng Chief Executive Officer ng INC orporated.

    malaki ang pinagkaiba ng KULTO na walang basehan sa Relihiyon.

  17. moisesysrael says:

    to. Checkmatepawn at Quirino Sugon,,
    Alam mo checkmate, Napakagago ng comment mo halatang-halata na bata ka ni Eliseo Soriano. Nawawala ka sa isyu Dong! Anong pinagsasabi mo na walang Pasko, walang fiesta at walang birthday kaninong doktrina yun? hindi m naman kayang patunayan yan dahil mga duwag kayo sa debate, hindi kayo sumisipot katulad ng lider ninyo.
    At sa iyo naman Mr. Sugon, ngayon ko lang nalaman na ganyan pala kabawbaw ang pananaw ng isang Atenista, sana nilagyan mo ng babala na ang pananaw mo ay pansarili lamang at hindi ng buong unibersidad. Ng mabasa ko ito tumingin ako sa kalendaryo akalo ko kasi panahon pa rin ng Kastila sa Bayan natin, kasi ang linaw ng deskriminasyon na gusto mong mangyari.
    Siguro sukatin natin ito sa quality hindi sa quantity ang relihiyon naman ay hindi pinaguusapan ang dami ng miyembro kundi kung gaano karaming kabutihan ang nagagawa nito.
    Hindi ko gustong lapastanganin ang Mama mary mo ha, kasi hindi mo alam na kasama siya sa ililigtas ni Cristo at wala pa siya sa langit up to this moment. Tama naman yung sa 10th commandments to honor your parents, pero iba yung parangalan kesa sa sambahin. There is only one mediator between man and God and that is Jesus Christ , wala ng mama Mary at mga saints.Man Made doctrines lang ito ng Catholic Church wala ito sa bible.
    Isang araw lang naman yung holiday na ibinigay sa Muslim at INC baka pwede mo ng patawarin yon.

  18. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Moises Ysrael, you should understand that this is my blog. My opinions are totally mine.

    One good thing that the Catholic Church did was to invent the Calendar that you are looking at. That calendar is called the Gregorian calendar, in honor of Pope Gregory VIII who decreed its use last 24 February 1582 through the papal bull Inter gravissimas. The one who devised the calendar with its system of leap years is Aloysius Lilius. His system was later modified by the Jesuit astronomer Fr. Christopher Clavius, S.J. before it was approved by the pope. The INC was not yet born when the Gregorian Calendar was invented.

    You cannot prove from the Bible that Mary is NOT in heaven. But this is what the Bible says: “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars” (Rev 12:1) This describes Mary under the tile of our Lady of Guadalupe. Mary under the title of Our Lady of Faitma also revealed that she is “the Woman Clothed with the Sun”.

    My proposed rules for declaring holidays is based on the majority rule, and this holds even for countries with Muslim majority. I do not oppose INC and Muslims celebrating their holidays. I only oppose that these celebrations should also be forced on the Catholic majority.

  19. laycarmelite says:

    Hindi naiintindihan ni Moises Ysrael ang salitang “pagsamba” ayon sa turo ng Biblia. Kung si Joshua ay sinamba ang anghel na nagpakita sa kanya eh hindi nagalit kasi alam ni Joshua kung anong paggalang ang iginawad niya sa anghel. Ang mahirap sa mga kaibayo sa pananampalataya eh ginagawa nilang Dios ang kanilang sarili dahil mukhang alam o nababasa nila ang puso ng mga tao kaya humuhusga na sila kaagad.

  20. checkmatepawn2 says:

    to moises: catholic ako.

    kung si Jesus lang ang mediator. ano si moises. baliw lang.

    wala na kayong magagawa kung holiday na ang 95th anniversary ng mga INCorprated.
    non working holiday naman ito e.

    isa lang ang ibig sabihin nito. malakas lang talaga ang influence ng mga INCorporated. Lalo na kung corrupt ang kausap mo nuh. syempre kakausapin mo lang ang isang apo ng SUBO tapos bibigyan ka ng presyo para naman ma-recommend ka. ganon lang naman ka simple ito e.

    ano ba ang mga requirements ng mga INCorporated sa pagpili ng mamumuno sa Gobyerno……. um. wala nuh?

    hinuhugot lang sa tumbong ni Eduardo ang pangalan ng mga iboboto ninyo.

    Kung ayaw mo talaga ng holiday na ito ganito lang naman ka simple ang gagawin ninyo e.

    Boycot.

    lahat ng business ng mga INCorporated. makikita mo yan sa mga flags ng mga kupal na ito.

    walang pera.

    walang 10 percent.

    walang INCorporated. walang reason for 95th anniversary ng lokohan.

    oo nga pala. yung batas ay napapasa lang kung may pagbobotohan. e mga boplaks at corrupt ang mga TONG gressman natin e.

    oo nga pala. tutal pinag-uusapan natin ang Voting, constitution, the rights of minority, and democracy. Di ba suportado ng mga INCorporated si Ferdinand Marcos HANGGANG 1986 ng matanggal sya. so pro dictatorship, pro illeteracy, pro nuclear, pro killings, pro corruption, pro imelda shoes pala ang mga INCorporated.

  21. read me says:

    to checkmatepawn2,

    hindi na ako nagtataka kung bakit parang galit na galit sa INC, i can describe it sa isang word. “INGGIT”. Unang una, nd naman ang INC ang nag-utos sa govrnment na gawing holiday ang anniversary ng INC, maging holiday man o nd ang July 27 walang paki ang INC dahil samin importanteng araw ito sapagkat iyon ang hula sa biblia na lilitaw ang Iglesyang kay cristo mula sa malayong silangan. Hindi na ko magugulat kung bakit ganyan ang ugali mo, sapagkat nagrereflect ang ugali mo sa iba mo pang kapwa rka relihiyon mo, ganyang ganyan kc ang reaction talaga lagi nila pag habang nananahimik ang INC ay tinitingala at kinikilala ito ng iba. Sana po walang BASTUSAN, dahil ngarereflect yan sa mga aral nyo kung hindi man sayo, iba iba tayo ng paniniwala, respetuhan lang yan, galangin mo ang iba para igalang ka rin ng kapwa mo, kahit naman kailan kapag may mga fiesta at kung anu anu pa ang Catholic CHurch, tanong, GANYAN BA KAMI MAGREACT? sana lahat ng natutunan mo nung ikaw ay nag-aral ay ipakita mo naman. (kung meron?) ehhe biro lang. Ang akin, RESPETO LANG PO!

  22. read me says:

    To Quirino M. Sugon Jr,
    hi! i think you have your personal reasons why you said about that, but we should also think and especially give respect to what in the higher power decided. We must think of the reasons why they have like this and like that. Yes, INC is…. lets say a minority even in other country but whats wrong with that? Is one of the classification of giving a holiday of this religion for exam. is having a great numbers of adherents in a country? Do you think why then the government for exam. do dates to become a holiday like for cory aquino, noynoy aquino, jose rizal, and many others? DO you think it is for them to be popular? Or to have a “sipsip” (in tagalog) to them? and etc. huh? no. 1 please think why the government make holidays for this person, for this religion and so on.

    for me, i think they declared holiday on july 27 because:
    1) to give recognition to the INC and its leaders because of its efforts in all aspect and also to help not only the members but also non members by its project lingap sa mamamayan.

    The government’s reason:
    “Likewise, the President wishes to thank the INC for the very active and significant roles its leaders and members have always played not only in the spiritual and moral formation of our people over the past several decades, but in nation-building as well,” the Palace said.

    So, dont be so i think selfish in this issue, about making a holidays for someone or something?^_^

  23. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Readme,

    I am not against to the government declaring religious holidays, such as those of INC and muslim holidays as long as these holidays only hold for INC and muslim adherents, respectively. These holidays should not be forced on the Catholic majority. My proposal for declaring holidays is by numbers: the majority of the population celebrates the holiday. This formula holds whether the country is a muslim, hindu, or christian. A city may declare an INC holiday if majority of its population are INC members.

    Quirino

  24. read me says:

    Sir,

    the question is, is the classification of having that holiday is to be a one religion become the majority?
    again, i will repeat, please analyze why is its purpose, or why they make july 27 a holiday on the whole nation. Why do you think it is “by numbers”? DO catholics not contented to their own holidays? that even oppose the government to its decision to make holidays to other religions, huh? Are catholics not contented to what they have and still doing something i think to debunk others?
    ……

  25. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Read Me,

    I think the best way to see my point is to switch places. In a city with 85 % INC members and 5 % Catholics, do you think that it is just for the city government to declare a distinctively Catholic holiday such as All Saints Day? I think it is not just. The most that the city government can do is to give Catholics a leave with pay during their holy days. For INC members, life should go on as usual.

    Quirino

  26. read me says:

    woahh.

    again and again… why it is hard to explain?
    The governments PURPOSE why they make july 27 a holiday not because they want INC to become popular, not because of the accusations of others about the VOTE, and etc. it is but to give recognition to the INC… because in about religion, INC have its history in the phil. being the fastest i think, growing number of members in the phi… that in the past INC gets so much even discrimination and others. but now, they defined it as a powerful religious group in the phi. and being the largest independent church in asia by wikipedia. do you think those success still not enough to give INC an recognition???

  27. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Read Me,
    So you propose that the standard way for giving recognition of a holiday is the not in actual percentage of the population but in the growth rate of of a religious sect’s membership? According to Wikipedia, the INC is doubled in membership from years 1980-2000. How will this be different from a church founded a few years ago whose membership doubles every year: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32…? I still stand by my formula for declaring holidays by majority rule.

    By declaring the holiday, the government does recognize the success of INC. July 27 is ok since it is a working holiday. The government can declare as many holidays of INC and Muslims as long as they don’t force Catholics to observe them. But Sept 7 (and Sept 21 are not ok, since are non-working holidays. Give to INC the holiday of INC, give to Muslims the holy day of Muslims, and give to Catholics the holy day of Catholics.

  28. read me says:

    The question is: Do the government force catholics to observe it???????????????????????????????????????????

    the thing is, “parang kabastusan yung act na pagdeclare ng holiday ng government tas baliwala lang sa iba?” right? all other religions in the phi. respect the holidays for catholics… but why do catholics always react if other religions wants the government to give them or lets say make them a date to become their holiday? I see your point and i respect it, but i think you are just over reacting…(?)

  29. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Read Me,
    To declare an INC holiday as a non-working holiday is to force Catholics to observe the holiday.

  30. checkmatepawn2 says:

    To read me:

    hindi kami naiingit sa inyo. ano ang rason kung bakit kami maiingit sa inyo? wala. anong araw ba nung ginawa ko tong comment na to. Um…. Novemner 14, 2009. sa tingin mo ba bago lumipas ang araw na to e di binabanggit ang pasko, araw araw sa balita, pag pumunta ka ng mall, pag lumabas ka sa bahay nyo. hula ko pag pumunta ka sa kapwa mo INC orporated. meron syang christmas tree.

    Nope hindi sya by majority in this case. by interest. ganito lang ka simple yan e. magbigay ka ng guidelines para sa pag “reccomend” ng mga pulitko. Uh…. wala nuh.
    sino ba ang sinoportahan nyo last time. si Gloria ba? “cory aquino, noynoy aquino, jose rizal, and many others? DO you think it is for them to be popular? Sa tingin mo ba ano ang makukuha ng mga taong nabanggit dyan sa sinabi mo kung i dedeclare na holiday ang pagkamatay nila.

  31. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    To commenters in this blog

    Let us be charitable to one another, especially with members of other religions. Respect the person, critique his ideas. As the Disederata said, “Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others even the dull and the ignorant, for they too have their story.” Charity covers a multitude of sins (2 Cor 12:5). Uncharitable lines and posts I immediately delete and send to trash. Also, please write in English not Filipino. In this way more readers can understand what you are talking about.

  32. read me says:

    checkmatepawn2,

    im sorry, but i dont want to debate you, especially to all others like you “na mabababaw ang utak”. Im sorry but i think that phrase can really describe you. Do not say anything specially not a fact. Do not have your accusations to the INC that makes you a liar, why? ask it to your self!!! Do not say anything just to debunk or have your propagandas especially this is not the place for it, just to defend your religion? or to become your religion a “WINNER”? is that makes you satisfied? makes you happy??

  33. read me says:

    Quirino M. Sugon Jr,

    may i ask something, is it a BIG DEAL to our catholic friends specially you to do that?
    do Catholics will do something just to observe that non-working holiday?
    Do they sacrifice something and everything huh? why is it for you take it a so BIG DEAL?

  34. checkmatepawn2 says:

    It is a fact that INC orporated supported Ferdinand Marcos during his dictatorial years till the end of his term in 1986 revolution. I guess for someone like you who are ignorant in your INC orporated stand in politics don’t have a right to stamp me as a dumb because this discussion is all about the legality of declaring a day that should be WORTH celebrating.

    In the balance of justice, I think it will tip the scale that this INC orporated holiday is a celebration of cruelty and selfishness to others. Again, base on your theory about “reflection.”

    I am not a liar.

    It is true that you are in a Cult. You declared your cult as a Christian but it does not believe Jesus Christ as God.

    It is true that your flag is misleading. It supposed to be Jewish or a country that in majority are Catholics because there is a symbol of a candle holder and a flag of Mexico or Italy.

    It is true that you call our Muslim brothers as ‘friends” who will never see heaven according to your principle that no one will enter heaven if that person does not join your club.

    It is true that you have a rule that no one should ever eat blood. but you do eat it every single time you eat meat. Based on anatomy books, chapter skeletal system for a dish called “bulalo.” Based on common knowledge that while you are cooking “tinola” there is a time when you need to wait for the “dead blood” to sip out thru the chicken before you add other vegetables. In addition to that, do you ever hear someone complain that their chicken is still bloody in fast food restaurants? All of these seem to be simple but it is fact that you eat blood.

    It is true that you have a rule that no one should ever oppose the rules of your club. It is true that you will not be able to enter heaven if you ever break one rule according to your PASUBO.

    It is a fact that you declare a rule that no one will never be able to follow and at the same time your cult imposed another rule that is crucial to your salvation in heaven. How dumb is that?

    Again, base on your theory about “reflection”

    Is this is the day of celebrating a founding of a CLUB that full of lies, backstabbing and being a dumb. I think we should celebrate this holiday but we should rename it as dumb day for the sake of the dumb.

  35. INC Holiday dumb says:

    They just declared it holiday not because of the SIGNIFICANCE of the event but just to seek or solicit POLITICAL SUPPORT.

    INC have tried this scheme to crawl and penetrate the government agencies just to get this Cult survive. Have they not done this, their Cult might not exist by this day.

    For them, the number of membership is important by trying to sell a doctrine that suits their purpose (gain money) not to spread the Gospel.

    If you are wondering why they call Muslims their friends, INC is a muslim cult disguised as Christian but take a look at their teachings. They are the same – CHRIST is MAN. MOhammed is for Muslims and Felix Manalo is for the INC.

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