Debate of Khalid Ibrahim Mabute of Balik Islam Movement and the Catholic apologist Cenon Bibe Jr. in the University of the Philippines was indefinitely postponed

I arrived at 9:30 a.m. at the Quezon Hall of University of the Philippines Diliman, which is behind the Oblation Statue.  Khalid Ibrahim Mabute and Shakil Ibrahim of the Balik Islam Movement were there before the giant Greek columns.  The former was a youth of 18, beardless; the latter about a few years older with a goatee.  They were talking to a certain Manny who was a friend of Cenon Bibe Jr.  The two asked Manny why he came.  Manny said he is a friend of Ceno and he wants to know more about the Catholic Faith.  I just stood behind them trying to eavesdrop their soft conversation.

There were no other people in sight, except a few students doing other business and some guards of the hall.  There were white monoblock chairs arranged in the wide lawn behind, perhaps a sort of graduation ceremony will be held.  But it was raining; the lawn was empty.

Then Cenon came with a black shoulder bag of books.  He was about in his late thirties, taller than Mabute and Ibrahim.  Cenon’s beer belly  made him look older.

Cenon asked if the debate will start.  The two members refused.  They said they think they were only trying to arrange a pre-debate signing of memorandum of agreement.  Mabute said he was only a mediator.  Cenon was a bit annoyed.  He canceled his work only to come here.  He asked for an informal debate, but he was refused.  Voices were raised.  The guards went to them and asked them to go down the stairway.  In the end, they signed an handwritten agreement:

***

Kami sina Khalil Ibrahim Mabute at ako si Shakil Ibrahim sa ngalan ng mga Balik Islam (Islamic Faith Defenders of the Philippines) ay naghahamon kina Cenon Bibe at mga kasamahng Romano Katoliko sa isang maginoong debate isat lugar at petsa na pagkakasunduan ng dalawang panig.

Ito ay palitan lamang ng paliwanag.  Hindi ito dapat maging religious war.

Translation:

We, Khalid Ibrahim Mabute and I Shakil Ibrahim, in the name of Balik Islam (Islamic Defenders of the Philippines), are challenging Cenon Bibe and his fellow Roman Catholics to a gentleman’s debate in a place and time that will be agreed by both parties.

This is only an exchange of explanations.  This should not become a religious war.

Signed: Shakil Ibrahim, Khalid Ibrahim Mabute, and Cenon Bibe.

***

They decided to photocopy the agreement.  Cenon asked for a time for his friends in the Defensores Fidei to come.  About three of them came, each armed with bags of books: Manuel Protacio, Kit Lumnigkit, and Lito Jamisola.  These are veteran Catholic apologists who prefer to debate in front of large crowds, such as in Luneta Park in front of the Japanese Embassy, near the chess center.

Cenon told them the debate was postponed.  After the agreement was photocopied, I went with apologists for a lunch of fishball and buko juice.  And I heard their tales that may be worth several blogposts.  I left them at 3:30 p.m.  I still have work to do.

The debate never happened, and I don’t think it will ever happen in the near future.  But at least I learned a lot and met new friends.

About Quirino M. Sugon Jr
Theoretical Physicist in Manila Observatory

29 Responses to Debate of Khalid Ibrahim Mabute of Balik Islam Movement and the Catholic apologist Cenon Bibe Jr. in the University of the Philippines was indefinitely postponed

  1. Pingback: Khalid Ibraheem Mabute of the Balik Islam Movement debates with Catholic Apologist Cenon Bibe, Jr. on 25 April 2009: “Is the Christian Bible more credible than the Q’ran?” « Monk’s Hobbit

  2. Armando m, labaguis jr. says:

    baki po napospone

  3. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Armando,

    The debate will not push through. I think Khalid is a zealous convert to Islam, but he is not a debater and a scholar. He did not agree to have an informal debate with Cenon right there and then, even though Khalid was the one who challenged Cenon in the first place. I think this says much.

  4. junex says:

    Mga kaibigan,

    Ako po ay isang dating debotong Katoliko bago naging Born Again Christian at di kalaunan ay nag-Balik Islam, sa kadahilanang ang pananampalatayang ito ay tunay na mapagpalaya bukod sa ito ang orihinal na niyakap ng ating mga ninuno bago dinahas ng mga mananakop na Kastila, na pawang mga Katoliko, ang ating arkipelago.

    Naging kasapi rin ako ng Ananda Marga Yoga Society at ng PROUT, at noong kainitan ng aktibismo sa panahon ng diktadurang Marcos ay seryosong pinag-aralan ang Marxismo-Leninismo-Kaisipang Mao Zedong na pilit na nilulusaw ang ispiritwalidad ng mga nagtataguyod ng tinatawag na Pambansang Demokrasya o “national democracy” — ang yugto ng transisyon patungong Sosyalismo.

    Subalit tanging sa Islam lamang nakikita ko ang kaliwanagan. Sa katunayan, ang Imam na nagkasal sa akin at ng aking mahal na asawa ay isang dating Romano Katolikong pari.

    Kailangan lamang buksan ni Ginoong Bibe ang kanyang isipan at huwag humusga dahil maging sa Bibilya ay sinasabing “Judge not so that you shall not be judged.”

  5. bro.dawood says:

    Assaalamu alaykum, sana magkaron lang kyo ng bukas na kaisipan, totoo eto ang kumpletong panuntunan ng buhay natin, na higit pa sa sinsabing relihiyon.

  6. The Catholic Church even came before Islam. Ung mga ninuno niyo, kailangan palang BALIK KATOLIKO dahil nauna ang Katoliko kaysa sa Islam!

  7. Better if the debate be aired on TV and Radio Stations.

  8. Gin Sancianco says:

    “”Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and BEAUTIFUL PREACHING; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.””‘
    — The Holy Qur’an 16:125

    Follow the Way of Jesus, The Way of Muhammad. DEBATES for purposes of shaming the other under the pretext of advocating the Message of God NOT included. I think it is more harmful than helfpful.

  9. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Gin,

    The way of Muhammad is conquest by sword. The way of Christ is conquest by love: “Love one another as I have loved you.” I shall follow the way of Christ.

    Dialogue assumes that the other person is human who is reasonable, who can be convinced through reason and not through death threats. Christians consider Muslims as fellow human beings, that is why Christians like Mother Teresa takes care of the sick and the dying even those who are not Christians. What does the Quran say about Christians and Jews?

  10. Gin Sancianco says:

    You didn’t read the Message of God through Muhammad I just posted above, did you?

    Here’s another one:

    2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.”

    How is that by the sword? I ended my last piece with “Follow the Way of Jesus, The Way of Muhammad. DEBATES for purposes of shaming the other under the pretext of advocating the Message of God NOT included. I think it is more harmful than helfpful.

    How is that by the sword?

    You are obviously referring to what the media said about what the muslims did. Have they been constantly at war? Did not these violent REACTIONS started only towards the later part of the second fifty years of the last century when the west started advancing into the arab oil fields and only in retaliation of the the atrocities committed against them? Do you really believe 9/11 was Osama Bin Laden?
    Here’s the what the moral and sane Americans have to say about it. Please watch and not judge on the basis of hearsay.

    BluePrint for Truth about the 9/11 Attack

    And thank you for the question:
    What does the Qur’an say about the Christian and Jews:

    5:82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; AND NEAREST mong them IN LOVE to the believers wilt thou find THOSE WHO SAY “CHRISTIANS”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and THEY ARE NOT ARROGANT.

    I have not asked yet your religion, but if you are what the verse above just described, you must be Christian. So I hope you won’t negate that by arrogantly accusing Islam of things based on ignorance.

    Thank you.

  11. Gin Sancianco says:

    5:82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; AND NEAREST among them IN LOVE to the believers wilt thou find THOSE WHO SAY “CHRISTIANS”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and THEY ARE NOT ARROGANT.

    True Christians study first before insolently forming an opinion.
    True Christians are not arrogant bigots.

  12. Gin Sancianco says:

    Now before you accuse Islam of being “spread by the sword” which is actually a tagline of the very perpetrators of it in order to hide their crime, please read Christian history, your own history including the history of our country, the Philippines. Your ancestors and mine are peace-loving muslim and quiet society until the Christian Spaniards slaughtered them and obliterated our heritage.

    =================================================================
    “Nearly every culture that came into contact with Western Christianity tolerated and accepted Jews until Christianity spread its violent anti-Jewish message across the West. Only with Christian principles was anti-semitism made possible, culminating in the atrocities of the Nazis during World War 2.”

    ~~~~~~~

    “The aggressive Pauline Christianity gained the upper hand in the 4th century. The Roman Empire became a Christian Empire and under Emperor Constantine from the 4th century “theological diatribes” against the Jews began to appear in law. The first bloodshed was the finalisation of the slaughter of all the gnostics and the destruction and oppression of Judaism. The Roman Empire, once a multicultural tolerant nation became a theocracy ruled by Christian intolerance; and this influence spread through the Roman Empire to all of the Western world. Where Christianity had a stronger foothold, the Jews and non-Christians were persecuted and slaughtered more mercilessly than at any other time.”
    — Anti-Semitism: 2000 years of Christian Love. By Vexen Crabtree 2004 Oct 06
    =================================================================

  13. Marco says:

    I am a Christian evangelist – a defender and preacher of the truth. I am willing to have a formal (gentlemen’s) debate with our friends from the Islamic faith. Please contact me through my personal cell phone number at: 0926.718.8883

    Let us discuss and settle this overdue comparative debates between the Islamic and the Apostolic Christian faiths.

    Hope to hear from any intellectual and devoted muslim brethren.

    God bless us all.

    Very respectfully,

    Marco

  14. Gin Sancianco says:

    Greetings to you Bro. Marco.

    InshaAllah, I shall be more than glad to have a DIALOGUE with you, NOT A DEBATE, over whatever religious issue or whatever maybe your perception of Islam at the Interfaith Corner account in the Facebook. We can organize a private exchange, shown to the public but which they may not participate in.

    Dialogues are Qur’anically encouraged by God Almighty:

    3:64 Say: “O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.”

    We all came from the same God, the God of Adam and Eve, of Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Let us see where we might meet and glorify and serve God together.

    Sincerely
    Gin

  15. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Gin,

    You can have your dialogue here, except that anyone can participate.

  16. Bernard says:

    Dear all,

    Please watch this link… Thanks and regards, Bernard

  17. benmfwnt says:

    Salam to everyone.

    I didn’t like what Khalid and his fellow did to Cenon. And for the three of them, what kind of a common thinking do u have to signed an agreement without even stating the venue, time and date.

    ————–

    To QMSJr, “Wala pong pamimilit sa pagpasok sa Islam.” Kung may halo man pong pamimilit, ito po ay hindi Islamic. Maliwanag po ba?

    ————–

    “What does the Quran say about Christians and Jews?” ~ from QMSJr. July 1, 2011

    — As for the Jews:

    “And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, “I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.” ~ Qur’an 5:12

    “They have been put under humiliation [by Allah ] wherever they are overtaken, except for a covenant from Allah and a rope from the Muslims. And they have drawn upon themselves anger from Allah and have been put under destitution. That is because they disbelieved in the verses of Allah and killed the prophets without right. That is because they disobeyed and [habitually] transgressed.” ~ Qur’an 3:112

    “Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al- Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

    And We gave Moses the Scripture and made it a guidance for the Children of Israel that you not take other than Me as Disposer of affairs,

    O descendants of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah. Indeed, he was a grateful servant.

    And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, “You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.

    So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours – those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

    [And said], “If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves.” Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

    [Then Allah said], “It is expected, [if you repent], that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return [to sin], We will return [to punishment]. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed.”

    ~ Qur’an 17:2-8

    —————————–

    Gin,

    This QMSJr avoid some of my points here. I don’t when he reply on it

    —————————

    @QMSJr,

    So what can u say? Just wait for some of the verses/explanations that Qur’an say about Christians, OK?

  18. benmfwnt says:

    As for the Christians:

    “Say, “O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you – that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah .” But if they turn away, then say, “Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].”

    ~ Qur’an 3:64 state what Allah’s (swt) general commandment to People of the Scripture (or People of Earlier Revelations) ~ Jews and Christians.

    “Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was.” ~ Qur’an 3:59

    “And they say, “The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son.
    You have done an atrocious thing.
    The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation
    That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.
    And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.
    There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant.”

    ~ Qur’an 19:88-93

    “And fear a Day when no soul will suffice for another soul at all, and no compensation will be accepted from it, nor will any intercession benefit it, nor will they be aided.”

    ~ Qur’an 2:123

    “They have certainly disbelieved who say, ” Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary” while the Messiah has said, “O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with Allah – Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

    They have certainly disbelieved who say, ” Allah is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.

    So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.”

    ~ Qur’an 5:72-75

    ————————

    I hope that u wud be satisfied with explanatios QMSJr and please reply. Stop being elusive.

  19. benmfwnt says:

    For the supplication for Qur’an 2:256 . . . visit this site:

    http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/terrorism_verses1.htm

  20. benmfwnt says:

    QMSJr,

    I advise u to read, not just 10 books, but, say 30 books, about the life story of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). Also try to read the Qur’an in English translation. However, careful on choosing what to read, because some of them are biased. And note that if u read the Qur’an in English (translated), keep in mind that it is not the Qur’an, coz Qur’an is in Arabic. TY.

  21. Bernard says:

    Dear all,

    I hope everyone had read the 15 episodes of WA above.

    Below link is also for the Jews…

    God bless….

    http://www.youtube.com/user/JesusOrMuhammad

  22. benmfwnt says:

    @Bernard,

    _how I wish i cud watch the video, sadly, the internet cafe where I used to log in have a very slow internet connection. huhuhu. Thanks Bernard.

  23. sana po magkaroon na ng debate ng padre at mga uztadz.. Sa tv or radido para lahat naman po ay makakasaksi na the 1st religion in this world are only ISLAM

  24. “only” religion in the eyes of Allah . . .

  25. norodin says:

    Assalam to all: ano po ba talaga ang paniniwala ng mga kapatid nating mga Katoliko? Ang pari po ay bago siya pumasok sa kumbento ay malinaw na ang turo ay ang luma at ang bagong tipan na kanyang tatanggapin ng walang pasubali.Ating titingnan ang mga talata kaugnay ng kautusan ng Puong Maykapal, na kanyang ipinapaliwanag na ang mga kautusan niya na pinahiwatig sa Bibliya ay habambuhay at gumuho man ang mundo ay hindi mababago( tulad ng pag iwas kumain ng baboy o dugo). Anong sabi sa bibliya (1) “Observe and obey all these words I command you, that it may go well with you and your children after you” forever”. when you do what is good and right in the sight of the Lord, your God”Deut. 12:28 (2) “I am not suppose to come to abrogate or destroy the law(Torah) and the prophets, but to complete”Math 5:V 17-19. (3) ” I am Lord I change not” Malachi 3: V 6. (4) ” Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall diminish ought from it” Deut. 4: V2 . (5)”I know that everything God does will endure “forever”, nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it” Ecclesiasticus 3:14. (6) “My covenant will, I not break nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips” Psalms 89:34.
    So, inyong basahin sa bibliya ang Acts 15:29, Lev. 11:43, Deut.12:23, Lev. 11:7-8. Malinaw na walang dapat pagtalunan kundi babalik tayo tunay na turo ng Dakilang Propeta Jesus (PBUH).

  26. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Norodin,

    What does Jesus teach?

  27. Papa Natu says:

    Si Jesus ay nagturo na sambahin ang nag iisang Diyos at ganoon din ang lahat ng propeta ng Diyos na tulad ni Moses,Noe, Abraham at mga iba pa. Kailanman hindi nagturo na Jesus ay Diyos o kaparte ng Diyos(Trinity) at sinabing sambahin nyo ako.

  28. we love JESUS and JESUS love’s those people who trust him.no one can defeat the BIBLE..because the BIBLE is the WORD of GOD,kahit kailan ang mga islam ay wla sa tamang direction khit sa ilang mga debate na napanoud ko.wla cla sa tamang paksa.. please read the BIBLE carefully so you do understand. ok..about nmn sa qua-ran there is no evidence to proof that the Quaran is the BOOK of GOD..you must understand first the qualification of Quaran.all sentence or words inside the quaran is contradiction to the christians,

  29. langcuyan says:

    @josaphat,

    what? “… Ang mga islam ….”??? Such line showed only how extremely ignorant you are of the basics. :)

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