Posts Tagged ‘Iglesia ni Cristo’
March 10, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Mt 16:18 was quoted not so much for the Trinity but for the promise of Christ that the Church that He will found on Peter will not be overcome by error. So if INC claims that there was apostasy in the Church after the death of the last apostle, then Christ is a liar, a false messiah who makes false promises. As God spoke in Deuteronomy through Moses:
21Should you say to yourselves, “How can we recognize that a word is one the LORD has not spoken?”, 22if a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD but the word does not come true, it is a word the LORD did not speak. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not fear him. (Dt 18:21-21)
But if the opposite is true and the Church founded by Christ on Peter never apostasized, though some of its members left the sheepfold, then the promise of Christ remains true, and Manalo is a false prophet who deceived many.
Comment by seeker March 1, 2012 at 11:46 pm
Mr. Sugon, your question cannot be answered by just one statement or explained in just one verse. There were many prophesies in the Bible that prove Bro. Felix Manalo was the Last Messenger of God. It’s like puzzles that when you put them all together, you get the answer.
Reply by Quirino M. Sugon Jr March 10, 2012 at 11:43
I am puzzled how INC can put together verses in the Bible to prove that Felix Manalo is the Last Messenger of God. The Last Messenger of God is not a unique teaching, because it was borrowed from the Muslims: Muhammad is the Last Messenger. If you claim that the latter days is 1914 because of the rumors of wars, the Muslims can also claim such a thing because they are the ones who started the wars, conquering the Christian lands around the Mediterranean Sea: Spain, North Africa, Eqypt, Syria, Asia Minor, and Constantinople. Muhammad also came from the East. He also teaches about the One True God, Allah. He also teaches that Jesus is just a man, a prophet. All the verses that you can use to prove that Felix Manalo was foretold in the Bible can equally apply to Muhammad.
If you claim that the Last Messenger must be in the Philippines, such title can also apply to Gregorio Aglipay who founded the Independent Church of the Philippines founded in 1903. Like Manalo, he also rejected the Trinity. Like Manalo, he also hates the Catholic Church. Like Manalo, he is also a Freemason. All the verses that you can use to prove that Felix Manalo was foretold in the Bible can equally apply to Gregorio Aglipay.
But Christ already foretold these things:
“False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.25 Behold, I have told it to you beforehand.26 So if they say to you, ‘He is in the desert,’ do not go out there; if they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.*27k For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.” (Mt 24:24-28)
First off, the true Christian teachings upheld by the Iglesia ni Cristo are readily available on the Web (e.g. Wikipedia), or via radio and television broadcasts. We have cable channel NET 25 where you can watch and learn the doctrines as well as the activities of the church. We may not have what you call official Web site, but, the FUNDAMENTAL teachings are readily available online. That’s why many of the critics of the INC, such as you, can elicit questions against them.
I am just wondering why you still ask for such official Web site if you are able to create a blog that criticizes our beliefs. If you don’t have the knowledge of the doctrines and beliefs of the INC, then why create an online journal such as this with the intention of challenging the truth of our faith. Just a thought, Mr. Sugon.
Also, the members of the Iglesia ni Cristo are FULLY AWARE of the fundamental doctrines of the church FYI. All of us are being instructed to remain steadfast in our faith through the pure teachings of Christ. That is also why you may find some members who may falter in their faith and eventually face excommunication (pagtitiwalag) due to unbelief or unchristian practices….
Will INC trust Wikipedia to reflect its true doctrines? Will INC trust Net 25 to explain true doctrine? Humans come and go. If humans can err in grammar and sentence construction, how much more in official doctrines? If there are contradictions in the arguments, INC will just say, “It is not official”. I may make a blog criticizing INC beliefs, but what I am criticizing is what I think INC believes. This may be different from what INC truly believes. Thus, it is important that there is an official teaching that people can scrutinize word for word–a teaching with the seal of approval of the INC hierarchy. As Christ said:
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.j15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.” (Mt 5:14-15)
Opinions of men vary in time and place. But since the salvation of men requires that they be taught the truth, it is imperative that truths and doctrines be laid down in written form that will stand the test of time. INC must build its house on rock by writing down its official doctrine. Otherwise, INC builds its house on sand, and when the floods come, the house will be washed away. (cf Mt 7:24-27)
Question: From Vincent Cepeda:
it’s ironic how INC reemerged from the philippines, a third world country.
From an illiterate poor man who didn’t even have money to pay his fare at the time that he’s spreading the words of God.
The poor illiterate man, who was tagged as the map, for he only had one pair of coat (amerikana) which from everyday use already formed a map of sweat.
The poor illiterate Felix Manalo who had to battle the then vast Catholic Church and Protestant – during the start of World War 1.
From a poor illiterate man, INC is now worldly renowed, very powerful and influential.
With the economy failing, the world is getting poorer and poorer.
Even the richest country is going through recession and are filing bankruptcy.
INC is buying old Catholic Churches, buying towns and properties all over the world – paying cash, although majority of it’s members belong to society’s lower class.
INC who, in the middle of a World crisis, is currently building the World’s biggest indoor arena in the middle of a community.
From a poor illiterate man.
With all the impossibilities he had overcome, and by looking at INC now,
If it’s not for God, then whose work was it?
It is ironic how the Catholic Church emerged. It’s founder was born on a stable in Bethlehem. He lived in Nazareth where no prophets have lived. His foster father is a carpenter. He gathered 12 unlikely men, many of them illiterate fishermen. And he taught them the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. The founder died, but the twelve testified that he rose from the dead after 3 days. They saw him ascend to heaven with the angels. And he said to them:
“All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.19h Go, therefore,* and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,20i teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.* And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20)
Before the founder ascended to heaven, he told them to stay in Jerusalem and wait for “the promise of the Father* about which you have heard me speak;d 5for John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the holy Spirit.” (Acts 1:4-5)
And the promise was fulfilled:
“When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together.a 2And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind,* and it filled the entire house in which they were.b 3Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire,* which parted and came to rest on each one of them.c 4And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues,* as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.d” (Acts 2:1-3)
The Feast of the Pentecost is what the Catholic Church celebrates every year as its birthday. The 12 men cowering in fear became fearless proclaimers of their founder, Jesus Christ. And from these 12 men, the Catholic Church grew like a mustard seed: “It is the smallest of all the seeds, yet when full-grown it is the largest of plants. It becomes a large bush, and the ‘birds of the sky come and dwell in its branches.” (Mt 13:32) The Catholic Church has 1 billion members spread in all countries of the world.
Question: does INC celebrates the Feast of the Pentecost as its birthday? If not, then INC is not biblical. And we may, therefore, conclude that INC was not built by Christ and his apostles. In other words, INC was only built in 1914 by one man named Felix Manalo and that INC’s doctrines were only made by Manalo, even though he used the same Bible compiled by the Catholic Church.
Comment by Ivan January 18, 2012 at 12:29 pm
I expected the discussion would come to this. Now, you question the infallibility of the Bible, the very source of knowledge that awakens the consciousness of man in understanding the purpose of his existence. We know that the Bible is the basis of man’s faith.
I do not claim to know everything about the Bible, the history of its compilation, or even the original manuscripts from which the Bible came from. But, in this, I am sure — that the Bible (the compilation of Scriptures, that we have now) contains the Words of God made known to men through His prophets, through our Lord Jesus Christ, through His Apostles….
Response: Quirino M. Sugon Jr
January 21, 2012 at 7:54 pm
Since you do not know the history of the Bible, how it was compiled, then you must read history (which is not in the Bible). And you will learn that it is by the authority of Catholic Church that the Old and New Testament was compiled to a single book (or list of books). And the Catholic Church base its selection of books not on the Bible, because there was no complete Bible yet, but on Tradition: the teachings handed on by the apostles. As the Apostle Paul said:
“Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.” (Thes 2:15)
Notice that traditions are either written (like the books of the Bible) or oral (taught by the apostles though not written). The Bible itself speaks that it is not the pillar of truth but rather the Church:
“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” (1 Tim 3:15)
Christ did not command his disciples to settle disputes by reading the Bible (because there was only the Old Testament in His time), but rather to the Church:
“If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.16* i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’17j If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.18* k Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.19″ (Mt 18:15-18)
So next time that you pick up your Bible and start quoting its verses as truth, then you abide by the authority of the Church for stating that what you hold in your hands is truth. Felix Manalo did not compile the Bible, so he has no authority to interpret what he did not gather. The best that he could have done is to make his own Bible, e.g. replace the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John by the Gospels of Peter, Thomas, Philip, and Mary Magdalene. But Manalo did not do so, but believed the Bible as true.
Question by Ivan Misoto submitted on 2011/11/28 at 10:09 am
You cited the verse, Mt.13:10-11. about those who were granted the knowledge of the kingdom of heaven. In the same way, we can also say that not all men are given the understanding of the one true God. But, how can we tell which is which or who is who? Who are those people that have been given that wisdom or spiritual knowledge? How can we tell who they are when each religious authority (Catholic Church, INC, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) has been defending their own beliefs?
There is only one true religion. One can determine this from the wisdom of its founder and the proof of his authority through miracles. Well, Islam, INC, and Buddhism can also make such claims. So we look at the fruits of religion. We look at the men and women who lived the ideals of the religion and see if we wish to emulate them. For Catholics, the proof of the truth of the Catholic religion is in the holiness of the saints who followed the example and teachings of Christ. As Christ said:
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.k 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:15-20)
Christ said, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’(Mt 25:40) With this belief, Mother Teresa cared for the dying of India, because she saw Christ in them. This selfless caring for the dying has not been thought of in Hindu religion and will never be because Hinduism divides people into castes.
Christ said, “Put your sword back into its sheath, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Mt 26:52). St. Joan of Arc liberated France from the English without taking her sword to kill, and she wept bitterly for both the French and English who died in the battlefield. In the Battle of Orleans, the French and English faced each other. Because it was Sunday, St. Joan forbade the French to attack because it is the Lord’s day; they should wait for the English to make the first move. After one hour of both sides doing nothing, the English turned their backs without a fight and lost the battle. St. Joan is unlike Muhammad who treated Jews and Christians as enemies to be killed without compassion, or taxed to death until they convert to Islam. The fruit of Muhammad is the Jihadists who kill even innocent civilians.
Christ said, ““Not all can accept [this] word,* but only those to whom that is granted.12 Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage* for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.”” (Mt 19:11-12). To not marry for the sake of the kingdom of heaven is the vow of celibacy made by priests and consecrated brothers and sisters–and there are many saints who took this vow and lead holy and heroic lives, even to the point of martyrdom for the love of Christ. Did Felix Manalo of Iglesia ni Cristo not marry for the sake of the Kingdom of God? He married. If you believe Wikipedia, Manalo was excommunicated by Philippine Mission Churches of Christ and by the Seventh-Day Adventist Church because of adultery. Was there anyone in Iglesia ni Cristo took vows of celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom of God, following the example of Christ. None. Iglesia ni Cristo even teaches celibacy as contrary to the Bible.
So basing from these examples, which do you think is the true religion?
Another good research. But how reliable is “google”? You mentioned that Catholic Catechism quoted biblical verses. Can you give me the exact verses that we should worship idols, graven images and statues? That Christ is God in the bible? There’s Trinity in the Bible?
The Trinity is a truth deduced from the Bible and from the testimony of those who heard the apostles:
Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.19 h Go, therefore,* and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,20 i teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.* And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20)
The ‘truth’ that Felix Manalo’s INC is foretold in the Bible is a ‘truth’ deduced by Manalo. So if you ask me to search for the word “Trinity” in the Bible, I shall also ask you to search for “Felix Manalo” in the Bible. Remember the words of Christ: “I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.” Unlike Christ, Felix Manalo came in his own name for no one sent him except his deluded self, and he twisted the Scriptures in order that they prophesy his coming, leading many in INC astray.
Read it from ReadMe himself:
Straight from the pasugo, here it is:
Ordination is the investiture of ministerial or sacerdotal function through the laying on of hands. The first ordination mentioned in the bible was when Moses laid his hands on Joshua to be his successor.
Moses, however, had no need of anyone to ordain him because his commissioning was mandated by God himself—this is also why Bro. Felix Manalo had no need to be ordained. No man has the right to ordain another unless he is sent by God to preach his words(Rom.10:15). Bro. Felix Manalo was directly appointed by God through the prophecies recorded in the bible fulfilled in him.
Through prophecy, God commissioned his chosen servant from the “ends of the earth” refers to the period of when Judgment day is near signified by the outbreak of the First World War on July 27,1914. (Mt. 24:3,33,6-8). God chose Bro. Felix Manalo to proclaim his righteousness which is the gospel of salvation (Rom. 1:16-17). Concomitant with this right to preach was the authority for him to ordain would-be ministers.
From Pasugo September 1999
This is what the verse in Mt 24:4 says: “See that no one deceives you.5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.6 You will hear of wars 5 and reports of wars; see that you are not alarmed, for these things must happen, but it will not yet be the end.7
Does that verse refer to Felix Manalo? Did he come in the name of Christ, saying he is the messiah, and in doing so deceived many?
No one is ordained from mere prophecy alone. Moses was sent directly by God from the burning bush (Ex 3:10). David was ordained king by Samuel pouring oil on his head (1 Sam 16:13). Jesus was also baptized by John (Mk 1:9; Lk 4:18). No one directly ordained Manalo–as INC claims. Is Manalo greater than Moses, David, and Jesus?
The Blog’s owner is not actually a good Catholic defender but an excellent researcher. He keeps using Catechism as his basis for his argument. The Catholic Church’s Catechism was actually to counter the Protestant Reformists.
Anyway, I wonder if some of you guys are old enough to remember the Beatles’ song “Fool on the Hill”. The Beatles were referring to the irrelevance of the Pope.
Artsee and Clyde,
I am the least of all Catholic Defenders. You are right: I am not a good Catholic defender but an excellent researcher. Thank you for the adjective “excellent”, but it is you who say so not I. I only type keywords in Google and I get the answer that I need. I don’t remember the exact verses in the Bible. I only know that such verses exist and let Google do the searching. For example, if I want to find the verse on the Bible regarding transfiguration, I type in the Google search bar: “nab transfiguration”. “nab” stands for New American Bible. The first result in Google is Mark 9 of NAB. I click it. I don’t read the whole chapter. Instead I search the keyword in the chapter by typing CTRL + F, that is, “find”. A search bar will be provided where I shall type my keyword: “transfiguration”. Then I find that the word is not in the chapter but in the footnote. In the footnote I see Matthew 17:1.
I can repeat the procedure by looking for transfiguration in the Catechism of the Catholic Church by typing in Google “Catechism transfiguration”. That shall lead me to Part One, Section Two, Article 3. Then I type CTRL + F “transfiguration”. Look at the scroll bar. You will see some lines of yellow there. If your scroll bar reaches those lines, you will see the word “transfiguration” highlighted.
There, I gave you my little secret. I am not a genius. I invite you to search the Catechism using the method I presented about any doctrine you like to read on, just to see how stupid are the answers of the Catholic Church. You will never know how stupid the answers are until you read them. You will be surprised that the Catechism quotes the Bible a lot with chapter and verse numbers. You will also be surprised that there are also quotes of men who have studied the Bible longer than we did, e.g. St. Augustine and St. Aquinas. And you will be surprised that many of these men lived long before INC and some even actually heard the apostles themselves preach. Life is full of surprises.
Sadly, you cannot use the same method of research for INC doctrines because there is no official website to read. INC ministers may make mistakes in their teachings and you will never know, unless you see for yourself the official teaching.
Let me end with a quote (Google: “Fulton Sheen hate Catholic Church”): “There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.”
Btw, regarding Fool on the Hil, this is what Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fool_on_the_Hill):
McCartney said the song relates to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi:
“ ‘Fool on the Hill’ was mine and I think I was writing about someone like Maharishi. His detractors called him a fool. Because of his giggle he wasn’t taken too seriously … I was sitting at the piano at my father’s house in Liverpool hitting a D 6th chord, and I made up ‘Fool on the Hill.’ ”
Alistair Taylor, in the book Yesterday, reports a mysterious incident involving a man who inexplicably appeared near him and McCartney during a walk on Primrose Hill and then disappeared again, soon after McCartney and Taylor had conversed about the existence of God; this allegedly prompted the writing of the song.
Posted by benjie on June 9, 2011 at 11:56 am
RH Bill does not only benefit the pharmaceutical companies. It also benefits the priests who are sex perverts and maniacs. Are you sure your priests don’t use condoms and contraceptives?
Posted by Quirino M. Sugon Jr on June 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Good argument. RH bill would benefit both Catholic and INC ministers who are sex perverts and maniacs. If we do not allow RH Bill to become a law, illicit sexual intercourse can be more easily known because the woman will get pregnant or acquire sexually transmitted diseases. So why does the INC support the RH bill and why does the Catholic Bishops don’t? Is it because majority of the INC ministers are sex perverts and majority of Catholic Bishops are celibates?
On the linguistic and theological errors of Sen. Miriam Santiago: meaning of “multiply”, God’s authorship of Scriptures, and the divinity of Christ
Senator Santiago clashed with Cong. Manny Pacquiao on the meaning of biblical verses (ABS-CBN). An INC member posted the news as a comment in my blog, so here is my response:
By quoting Sen. Santiago, I assume you as an INC believe her arguments. The good senator knows grammar well but she does not know what she is saying. The phrase “Go forth and multiply” I cannot find in my Bible (NAB). (Can you find it in your Bible?) The verses I found are these:
“God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.28 God blessed them, saying: “Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth.” (Gen 1:27-28)
The good senator knows grammar and high-sounding words, but she does know the meaning of simple word like “multiply”. Multiply does not mean to work with other men as stewards of the earth. There is another word for that: cooperation. Rather, the word “multiply” means to grow in number until humans “fill the earth”. The necessary condition for “multiplying” is to be “fertile”. A woman is considered “fertile” if it can grow a male seed planted on it into a baby. Otherwise, the woman is considered “barren”, as a way to compare a woman’s womb to a land where not even a grass grows. For example, Sarah and Elizabeth were barren because they have grown old and they did not have any child (until God blessed their womb and they gave birth to Isaac and John). Thus, contraception, the means to make a woman effectively infertile through pills and condoms, is against the commandment of God to be fertile and to multiply.
According to Sen. Santiago the Bible was not written by God and not even by any of the eyewitnesses to God since…. it was written at least 70 years after the death of Christ? This is a theological error. This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. “The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.”69 “For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.”70 106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. “To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more.”71 107 The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”72 108 Still, the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book”. Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, “not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living”.73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open (our) minds to understand the Scriptures.”74
The Ten Commandments were written by God: “When the LORD had finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the commandments, the stone tablets inscribed by God’s own finger.” (Ex 31:18)
I may be mistaken, but I assume Sen. Santiago is Catholic and not INC. If she is Catholic, she needs spiritual care (and maybe psychiatric care, too). As a spiritual work of mercy, she needs to be taught that Christ is God and his apostles saw him. The Bible says no one has seen God, but the verse does not stop there: “No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, 12 who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.” (Jn 1:18) “Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? (Jn 14:9)