“Tumbukin Natin” blog: Catholic apologist Cenon Bibe answers questions from Balik Islam

As I thought before, the debate of the Catholic apologist Cenon Bibe and the members of Balik Islam will never push through. But Cenon has been receiving text messages on his mobile phone from those who claim to be members of the Balik Islam (Return to Islam) movement, a movement of former Christians who became Muslims.   (He also receives questions from Protestants.)  These questions he posts in his blog, “Tumbukin Natin” in the hope of converting the Balik Islam members back to Christianity.  So in this sense, he is starting the Balik-Kristiyano movement.   This is apt, since Christianity (AD 33) came first before Islam (AD 632), and many countries in Asia and Northern Africa–the provinces of the Old Roman Empire–were formerly Christian before the Islamic conquest.  The only problem, though, is that his blog is in Filipino. I hope he adds a Google translation widget, so that his blog would be read by more people all over the world.

Cenon has a fancy for sprinkling his writing with words in all caps. Some people may take offense at this, for all caps means shouting. Here, for example, is his mission statement, which I translated into English, with the words in all caps intact:

CATHOLICS and the CATHOLIC FAITH are being ATTACKED.  The ATTACKS are usually STRONG and FEROCIOUS.  The SAD thing is that their CRITICISMS  are ALL WRONG.

We launch this blog to help EXPLAIN CATHOLIC TEACHINGS and to CORRECT the WRONG THINGS said AGAINST CATHOLICISM.

You can HELP in DEFENDING THE TRUTH and in SPREADING the CORRECT TEACHING by INTRODUCING this BLOG to people you KNOW.

PRAISE be the LORD! PRAISE be JESUS CHRIST!

Here is a sample of questions or thesis statements  from Balik Islam that he answered:

  1. The bible has been corrupted because there are other scriptures that are not found in the bible such as  Gospel of Barnabas.  [here]
  2. Is the Bible confirmed by the Koran? [here]
  3. Jesus Christ is uncircumcised. [here]

Cenon is the only Catholic apologist studying Islam.  May he walk in the footsteps of St. Francis of Assisi, the man of peace who went to the Sultan in Egypt to try to convert him.  Here is a Wikipedia entry:

In 1219 Francis left, together with a few companions, on a pilgrimage of non-violence to Egypt. Crossing the lines between the sultan and the Crusaders in Damietta, he was received by the sultan Melek-el-Kamel.[1][14] Francis challenged the Muslim scholars to a test of true religion by fire; but they retreated.[1] When Francis proposed to enter the fire first, under the condition that if he left the fire unharmed, the sultan would have to recognize Christ as the true God, the sultan was so impressed that he allowed Francis to preach to his subjects.[1][15] Though Francis did not succeed in converting the sultan, the last words of the sultan to Francis of Assisi were, according to Jacques de Vitry, bishop of Acre, in his book “Historia occidentalis, De Ordine et praedicatione Fratrum Minorum (1221)” : “Pray for me that God may deign to reveal to me that law and faith which is most pleasing to him.”.[16]

St. Francis of Assisi, pray for us.

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About Quirino M. Sugon Jr
Theoretical Physicist in Manila Observatory

30 Responses to “Tumbukin Natin” blog: Catholic apologist Cenon Bibe answers questions from Balik Islam

  1. Cenon Bibe says:

    Brod Pol,

    Peace be with you.

    The Balik Islam (Shakeel) who challenged us to a debate has withdrawn.

    His latest reply on my blog said that he was finding it hard to organize the debate.

    That makes your words prophetic when you said that you doubted that such a confrontation would ever take place.

    Anyway, I praise God for your support for apologetics and for whatever little effort there is to respond to the criticisms of the Balik Islam.

    Let us continue praying for one another and for all the apologists struggling to defend the faith handed down to us from the Lord Jesus, the Son of God Who is God Himself.

    Praise God! Praise Jesus Christ!

  2. Norodin says:

    Referring to the Biblical Food Law(Lev. 11:7 , 43-44.Deut 12: 23-24,etc), Catholic obviously disobeyed this law hence tantamount to violation of the Holy Bible, here I am to proved that Jesus Peace be Upon Him did not repealed nor changed this biblical dietary Laws:
    All Christians should not eat pork because they believe unconditionally in the Old and New Testament.
    Some Christians claim that they are now Christians and no longer Jews, We may ask them why the ten commandments are strictly practiced and the old and new testaments are bound into one which is called The Bible? The Fundamental training of a christian priest is based on the Old Testament.
    The old testament (torah) or even the new testament (injil or Gospel)of the bible clearly testified that it can not be changed as indicated in the following verses instructed by god to Prophet Moises to be abided forever and the mission of Prophet Jesus. Please see and read following verses .
    -”Observe and obey all these words which I command you, that it may go well with you and your children after you forever, when you do what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 12:28).
    - “ I am not suppose to come to abrogate or destroy the law(Torah) and the prophets, but to fulfill”.(Matthew 5, verses 17-19)
    The apostle John is direct in his evaluation of any who claim to be Christian but refuse to follow Christ’s laws and commandments: “He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4). “ But in vain they worship me, teaching for the doctrines the commandments of men”(Mathew 15:9)
    -Malachi 3: 6 “ For I am Lord I change not.”
    -Psalms 89:34 “ My covenant will, I not break nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips”
    -Deuteronomy 4:2 “ Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it”.
    - Ecclesiasticus 3:14 “ I know that everything God does will endure forever, nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it.”
    Peter’s Testimony is Significant:
    Peter is a central figure in the early Church. Jesus charged Peter to strengthen the brethren (Luke 22:32). Peter delivered a powerful sermon that led to the conversion of thousands (Acts 2:14-41). His boldly claiming the name of Christ resulted in the miraculous healing of a lame man. He powerfully preached on repentance to those who gathered to witness the miracle (Acts 3:1-26). Later the mere passing of Peter’s shadow over the sick resulted in dramatic healings (Acts 5:15). Surely Peter would have understood something as fundamental as whether Jesus had repealed the laws of clean and unclean meat. Yet, years after Christ’s death and resurrection, when he experienced a vision of unclean animals accompanied by a voice telling him to “kill and eat,” notice Peter’s spontaneous response: “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean” (Acts 10:14). Ironically, many believe the purpose of this vision was to do away with the dietary restrictions regarding clean and unclean meats.
    This strange vision came to Peter three times, yet he still “wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant” (verses 16-17) and “thought about the vision” (verse 19). Peter did not jump to conclusions as too many do today. He already knew what the vision did not mean. Later God revealed the true meaning: “God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean” (verse 28).
    Peter came to realize that the significance of the vision was that God was opening the way or door of salvation to the gentiles (non-Israelites).( As Jesus PBUH was only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel,(Mathew 15:22-28) not for the non-Israelites or the Gentiles.)
    So Peter shortly thereafter baptized the first uncircumcised gentiles God called into the Church (verses 34-35, 45-48). Peter was never to eat unclean animals, but he did learn this vital lesson in the plan of God.
    So What purpose do they serve?
    Dr. Rex Russell explains: “For one thing, they serve a useful role just cleaning up the place. Many unclean animals, however, notably pigs and shellfish, are unhealthy because their diet consists of society’s disease-laden refuse.”As is well known, pigs will eat anything and everything. They were designed to clean up decaying flesh and pollution. Pigs have eaten Philadelphia’s garbage and sewage for more than 100 years, saving the city $3 million a year in landfill costs. This is a wise use of hogs. They are designed to clean our environment”.

  3. Norodin says:

    I am not Balik Islam, I am a muslim, and strictly followed the teachings of Islam, which is the first Religion of the Filipino People.Christianity brought by the Castillans who enslaved the Filipino people for hundreds of centuries and tortured and murdered the Moros just to convert them into Chriastianity.We moros in the Southern Pihlippines heretofore still kick and alive fighting for our religion to succeed even we became minority in our native Homeland. In 1927, our leadres prefered to be Americans rather than submit to the Christian Philippine Republic.Please read the story of your forebears, do not confine your teachings to Christianity: Seek the truth and set you free.
    I do not eat Pork and meticulously follow the halal way of eating: The Biblical Dietary Laws, even touching the carcasses of the swine is forbidden.

    May Allah Guide you in Truth.

  4. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Norodin,

    God is a good teacher. Before a teacher can teach abstract concepts like 1+2 =3, he has to bring one apple and two apples together to make three. But when the students learn to add and subtract numbers as abstract concepts and go into algebra and calculus, they do not anymore need the apples. In a similar way, before God can teach what is good and evil, he first has to teach the Israelites how to make distinctions, such as between clean and unclean animals. When these distinctions are learned, as in the case of Peter in his vision of clean and unclean animals, God can make clean the unclean unclean animals: “What God has made clean, you are not to call unclean” (Acts 10:15). God’s purpose in this is to help Peter see the spiritual meaning: the Gentiles, which Jews considered to belong not on the Chosen People by God, are now made by God as his own people, too. The dietary laws are not anymore necessary. In fact, in the Council of Jerusalem this issue was raised by some Pharisees who became Christians that the Gentiles should also observe Mosaic law, which includes the dietary laws on clean and unclean animals: “It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law.” At the end of the Council, Peter stood up and said:

    “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts. Why, then, are you now putting God to the test by placing on the shoulders of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they.

    And James added: ” It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood.”

    Jesus fulfills the law (Torah) and the Prophets, because they speak about him. Christ said, ” You search the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life. (Jn 5:39-40)” After his Resurrection, on the road to Emmaus, Jesus explained to his disciples the meaning of Scriptures in reference to him:

    And he said to them, “Oh, how foolish you are! How slow of heart to believe all that the prophets spoke! Was it not necessary that the Messiah should suffer 8 these things and enter into his glory?” Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them what referred to him in all the scriptures. (Lk 24:26-27)

    Christ is the Word of God. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jn 1:1)” It is he who the ultimate interpreter of Scriptures. In fact, there are numerous cases wherein Christ corrected the Pharisees, the scholars of the Torah, and provided the true interpretation of the Scriptures. Concerning dietary laws, Christ said:

    He summoned the crowd and said to them, “Hear and understand. It is not what enters one’s mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one.”… Then Peter 7 said to him in reply, “Explain (this) parable to us.” He said to them, “Are even you still without understanding? Do you not realize that everything that enters the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled into the latrine? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, unchastity, theft, false witness, blasphemy. These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.” (Mt 15:15-20)

    If you believe that Christ is a prophet, you must believe in everything that he said.

  5. Norodin says:

    In response to Mark 7, please read:
    Many assume Jesus’ statements in Mark 7 did away with the dietary restrictions recorded in the Old Testament. How should we understand Christ’s words?
    One of the foundational principles for understanding a scriptural passage is to examine the context. We should first notice that the subject is food in general, not which meats are clean or unclean.
    The Greek word broma, used in verse 19, simply means food. An entirely different Greek word, kreas, is used in the New Testament where meat—animal flesh —is specifically intended (see Romans 14:21; 1 Corinthians 13:8). So this passage concerns the general subject of food rather than meat. But a closer look shows that more is involved.
    In Mark 7 Jesus explains that ceremonial washing is not necessary for spiritual purity or sound spiritual health. He points out that “whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods” (verses 18-19). Jesus is simply stating here that any dirt or other incidental impurities not removed through elaborate hand-washing will be purged out by the human digestive system in a manner that has no bearing on the heart and mind of a person. Since spiritual purification involves the heart, ceremonial washings are ineffective and unnecessary in preventing spiritual defilement.

    Allah guide you in the right path.

  6. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Norodin,

    Does this mean that you believe that eating only ‘halal’ foods is not necessary for spiritual purity?

    P.S. I deleted some of your posts because they are too long and I think they are better placed in your own blog.

  7. Norodin says:

    Salam.

    Purity is synonymous to Halal, pls. open the holy bible and read Lev. 11:43, “Do not make yourselves unclean by eating anything unclean or forbidden(Biblical Food Law), I am the Lord your God and you must keep yourselves holy because I am holy”. I do believe, that Christianity bound themselves in both the Old and New Testament. Pls. think deeply and make thourough analogy.

    With regards to the Prophet Muhammad as prophesied in the Bible(Deut 18:18) or even the scriptures of the Hindu and Buddhist, pls analyse following elucidation to wit:

    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
    If these are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
    However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
    ‘Among their brethren’ clearly refers to a nation other than the Israelites. Otherwise it should have been ‘Amongst yourselves’. The reference in (Deuteronomy 18:18) could fit nobody else except Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and not Prophet Jesus, for the following reasons:
    -Do not forget that deuteronomy 18:18 is linked to deuteronomy 34:10 “then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face” So if the prophet that is mentioned in deuteronomy 18:18 must be like Moses, it cannot be someone from the children of Israël . Because that is contradicting deuteronomy 34:10.
    (World Religions from Ancient History to the Present, by Geoffrey Parrinder, p. 472)
    God sent the angel Gabriel* to teach Muhammad* the exact words that he should repeat to the people. The words are therefore not his own; they did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the angel. These are written down in the Qur’an word for word exactly as they came from God.Now that we know that prophet we must listen to him, for, according to the Bible, God says
    : “I will punish anyone who refuses to obey him” (Good News Bible, Deut. 18:19).

    Muhammed pbuh did speak directly with God swt, just like Moses pbuh.
    Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 608:
    …Then Moses stopped him when the prayers had been reduced to five and said, “O Muhammad! By Allah, I tried to persuade my nation, Bani Israel to do less than this, but they could not do it and gave it up. However, your followers are weaker in body, heart, sight and hearing, so return to your Lord so that He may lighten your burden.”
    -DEUTERONOMY 32:21: “and I (God Almighty) will move them (the Jews) to jealousy with those (the Arabs) which are NOT A PEOPLE (a non-entity): I will provoke them (the Jews) to anger with a FOOLISH NATION,” |the pre-Islamic Arabs)
    “brethren”, it refers to the arabs, since they also come forth from abraham’s (pbuh) seed. “brethren means someone from his own nation (jew).”, I say: ” Why could it then not mean someone from their brother nation(arabs). Since brethren has many meanings.
    Muhammad(PBUH) had family like Moses.(PBUH)
    Muhammad(PBUH) had father and mother like Moses(PBUH).
    Muhammad like Moses brought a law for his people, the Taurat and the Quran and Ahadit.

    Wassalam—–> Norodin

  8. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Norodin,

    Christ is the perfect interpreter of both the Old and New Testament. Christians are the people of the New Testament. If Christ has done away with dietary restrictions in the Old Testament, then Christians need not anymore be concerned about purity of food as long their hearts are pure.

    The Old Testament testifies not about Mohammed but Christ. Christ said: “You search the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life.” (Jn 5:39)

    You can try and try to interpret the Bible to show that they speak about Mohammed but you will never see his name there. But God–who is greater than any angel–said during Christ’s Transfiguration, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” (Mt 17:5)

    Christ is the successor of Moses because Moses talked about him during Christ’s Transfiguration:

    “While he was praying his face changed in appearance and his clothing became dazzling white. And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem.” (Lk 9:29-31)

    Mohammed never talked with Moses and Elijah.

  9. Wants To Be Anonymous says:

    My hobbit friend,

    I would like to remind you that true Christians are people of both the “old” AND “new” testaments — we are people of the inspired word of God! It is the AND that separates us from the heritage of our Jewish brethren, and it is the same AND that separates us from quasi fundamentalist, quasi christian religious like groups and denominations.

    Remember that most, if not all, of Jesus’ parables are more or less unique/revolutionary to the new testament, however, that Jesus used words attributed to Moses to remind the people of his time that the first and second commandment is

    Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength.

    Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your [neighbor]. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

    Note that [neighbor] was originally “fellow countrymen”, Jesus extended this to love of neighbor/fellow human being.

  10. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    My friend,

    That is true. We are people of the Old and New Testaments. That is why the 10 commandments is still part of our Catechism and we honor the Old Testament prophets as saints. But when Christ makes a perfect interpretation of the original intent and meaning of Old Testament texts, such as dietary laws and the indissolubility of marriage, we follow Christ. When some Pharisee converts to Christianity said regarding the Gentiles, “It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law,” (Acts 15:5) the Apostles in the Council of Jerusalem made the final decision addressed to the Gentiles: “It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.” (Acts 15:28-29)

    We do not anymore offer the blood of sheep and bulls as sacrifice for the atonement of sins. We offer the body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ in every Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

  11. Dear Father,

    Peace and Love!

    I’m a Capuchin monk of the Holy House of Loreto in Marche in the centre of
    Italy.

    Through the site http://www.santafamigliatv.it we
    are committed via Internet for the new evangelization.

    To this aim, we ask you for one of your film footage. (any format DVD,
    VHS, minicassette) you have already realized, so as to include in our
    Schedules and our Archives.

    The topic could be the presentation of your institute, your busisness
    vocation, your missions, ….
    The movie will be offered for a year (once a week) and permanently in our
    archive always freely available.
    In support of this activity religion we ask you for your contribution of
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    We invite you to know the meantime visitors to our site.

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    in SS Hearts of Jesus and Mary

    P. Giovanni Maria Leonardi

  12. renz fajardo says:

    paki lagyan namn po ninyo ng tagalog version upang maintindihan po namin yun mga pinag uusapan gusto rin po nmin malaman ito

  13. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Renz,

    Pakipunta na lang sa blog na Tumbukin Natin ni Cenon Bibe. Ito ang link: http://tumbukin-natin.blogspot.com/

  14. Thanks brother for the excellent answer to Norodin. Yes it’s true, Mohammad never conversed with any of the prophets except an alleged apparition of the Angel Gabriel. All prophets of the Old Testament spoke with God like a real friend but Mohammad never had any direct conversation with God except from an alledged apparition of the Angel Gabriel.

  15. Norodin says:

    Salam,

    Ano naman ang excellent answer sa blog ko? Napakalayo naman pare ko.Ang dami ninyong sinusuway sa Biblia Basahin mo ang Acts 15:29.
    At meron ba sinabi si Jesus PBUH na siya ay sambahin?

  16. Norodin,

    We are Christians and you are a Muslims. You believed according to your Qur’an which was a one-man alleged witnessing. Whereas the whole Bible (Torah and Injil) was written by different prophets and holy people of God witnessing to the Great Truth which culminated in Christ Jesus. That’s why after the Messiah, there will be no more prophets for he has fulfilled already the sayings of the prophets of old.

    Our Bible was written from ancient years before and after the birth of Jesus Christ and your was written by Muhammad’s followers and succesors only after Muhammad died in the late 7th century to which you want us to believe in a book that is directed by a LONE MAN? Sorry but it’s more logical to believe in a single book that was attested by different people in different times rather than a book testified by a man who never had any direct conversation with God. Old and New Testament Prophets and sages have DIRECT conversation with God and angels. Muhammad had no experience of such.

    Again Mr. Nordin, we are Christians and you are a follower of the Qur’an so please don’t pretend you know our Bible more than us. We ought to know this book for we have studied it years before Muhammad preached his new gospel. And to tell you what, REMEMBER that Muhammad lived in the Middle east during the controversy between those who believed Jesus has two distinct personality and those who believe he is BOTH God and man. The schism of Nestorius had influenced the Theology of Muhammad such that he believed the TRINITY is composed of the Father, the Blessed Virgin Mary and Jesus.

    God bless you Norodin and if you don’t believe in our testimony, leave our faith to us and you better educate those Muslims who are intollerant of Christians in the Middle East and preached LOVE and UNDERSTANDING more than the tenets of the Shariah, the Qur’an, Hadith and Sunna.

    Salam!

  17. Norodin says:

    Father,

    The Real Torah and the Injil or Gospel are also in the Glorious Quran, the final Holy Book. Did you not know the gap of Prophethood between Prophet Moises and Jesus was 1300years and Jesus and Prophet Muhammad was only about 600 years.?
    Pls read the following verses of the Bible need not to elucidate here:

    Jesus Prophethood,

    Mathew 19: 16-17
    21:45-46

    Jesus a mere servant of god,

    Mathew 23:8-9
    24:36

    Jesus also pray,

    Mathew 14:23

    Jesus was merely for the Israel

    Mathew 15:22-28

    Jesus asked help while in the cross

    Mathew 27:46

    CONCLUSION
    (a) If Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ (pbuh) and not one who worships Christ (pbuh). (We are more Christian than the Christians themselves).
    (b) Muslim is a person who submits his will to Allah.
    Jesus (pbuh) said, “not my will but thy will be done.” i.e. Muslim.
    John 5:30
    (c) Al-Qur’an 5:82

    Wasalam

    Dr. Norodin

  18. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Norodin,

    Please go to Cenon Bibe’s blog, “Tumbukin natin” and ask your questions there regarding the faith of muslims and christians. Thank you.

  19. Dr. Norodin, can you answer the growing threat of Islamic terrorism directed against us (infidels) and how your own people wanted to DOMINATE the WORLD? How your own people freely asks the HEAD OF THE POPE on a platter while you threatened us when we say otherwise?

    Your own people’s intolerance of other faiths is not “godly” and in my humble opinion, before you come here preaching what your Quran and Hadith and Sunna are saying, why not preach those GOOD VALUES to Osama bin Ladden and extremists killing Christians from Africa, Europe, Middle East and Asia? I mean that would be better.

    And can you refute the testimony of what’s going on in the world by your people’s waging war of JIHAD? See See and read here and refute them. We had enough.

  20. “Christianity (AD 33) came first before Islam (AD 632)”

    My REPLY: No! Islam means ‘complete submission to the will of God (without any objection)’. Adam’s religion was Islam. And so was older prophets like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ismael, Moses, Muhammad, etc. (peace be upon them). Even Jesus was a Muslim and do Islam — ‘complete submission to the will of God (without any objection)’ . . . Remember that he prays to God. The bible can support that he prays and instruct people to pray to God whom he prayed to. Haven’t you all read in the bible that he was “sent”? OMG! He was a prophet! A prophet of God! Adam was the 1st Muslim of this world and do Islam — ‘complete submission to the will of God (without any objection)’.

    Let’s say that we will neglect Adam. Let’s just say Noah or Moses (peace be upon them), they Islam — ‘complete submission to the will of God (without any objection)’, so QUIRINO M.SUGON JR., how could you say that Christianity was first than Islam?

    P/S: *Ooopss, i mind you that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was not the founder of Islam. He is a prophet.
    * Jesus did not verbally say that he was a God or Son of God. He was a man by the same power that made Adam into a man. Praise be to God — the Most High, All-Powerful.
    * He didn’t found the Roman Catholic faith or the Christianity in general.

    To reply to me: gang1033@yahoo.com is my email add. TY.

  21. “Dr. Norodin, can you answer the growing threat of Islamic terrorism directed against us (infidels) and how your own people wanted to DOMINATE the WORLD? How your own people freely asks the HEAD OF THE POPE on a platter while you threatened us when we say otherwise?
    Your own people’s intolerance of other faiths is not “godly” and in my humble opinion, before you come here preaching what your Quran and Hadith and Sunna are saying, why not preach those GOOD VALUES to Osama bin Ladden and extremists killing Christians from Africa, Europe, Middle East and Asia? I mean that would be better.
    And can you refute the testimony of what’s going on in the world by your people’s waging war of JIHAD? See See and read here and refute them. We had enough.”

    My Reply: There is no such thing as ‘Islamic terrorism’, the word terrorism has no place in Islam. Careful with ur words. Those who who commits terrorism is not a Muslim.

  22. By the way, any comment on these points?

    “Pls read the following verses of the Bible need not to elucidate here:
    Jesus Prophethood,
    Mathew 19: 16-17
    21:45-46
    Jesus a mere servant of god,
    Mathew 23:8-9
    24:36
    Jesus also pray,
    Mathew 14:23
    Jesus was merely for the Israel
    Mathew 15:22-28
    Jesus asked help while in the cross
    Mathew 27:46″

    Post back here or PM me: gang1033@yahoo.com T.Y.

  23. I want to insert something: Who is the ‘Prophet’ mention in John 1:19-21? Is this prophet has come? If yes, any proof/s? TY.

    “19 Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders[c] in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was.

    20 He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.”

    21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”

    He said, “I am not.”

    “Are you the Prophet?”

    He answered, “No.” . . . ”

    email me: gang1033@yahoo.com

  24. “Thanks brother for the excellent answer to Norodin. Yes it’s true, Mohammad never conversed with any of the prophets except an alleged apparition of the Angel Gabriel. All prophets of the Old Testament spoke with God like a real friend but Mohammad never had any direct conversation with God except from an alledged apparition of the Angel Gabriel.”

    My Reply: visit this site: http://islamunveiled.info/journey.html

    “345. Narrated Abu Dharr: Allah’s Apostle (SAW) said, “While I was at Mecca the roof of my house was opened and descended, opened my chest, and washed it with Zam-zam water. Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it. Then he took my hand and ascended with me to the nearest heaven, when I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the gatekeeper of the heaven, ‘Open (the gate).’ The gatekeeper asked, ‘Who is it?’ Gabriel answered: ‘Gabriel.’ He asked, ‘Is there anyone with you?’ Gabriel replied, ‘Yes, Muhammad is with me.’ He asked, ‘Has he been called?’ Gabriel said, ‘Yes.’ So the gate was opened and we went over the nearest heaven and there we saw a man sitting with some people on his right and some on his left. When he looked towards his right, he laughed and when he looked toward his left he wept. Then he said, ‘Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.’ I asked Gabriel, ‘Who is he?’ He replied, ‘He is Adam and the people on his right and left are the souls of his offspring. Those on his right are the people of Paradise and those on his left are the people of Hell and when he looks towards his right he laughs and when he looks towards his left he weeps.’ Then he ascended with me till he reached the second heaven and he (Gabriel) said to its gatekeeper, ‘Open (the gate).’ The gatekeeper said to him the same as the gatekeeper of the first heaven had said and he opened the gate. Anas said: “Abu Dharr added that the Prophet (SAW) met Adam, Idris, Moses, Jesus and Abraham. He (Abu Dharr) did not mention on which heaven they were but he mentioned that he (the Prophet (SAW)) met Adam on the nearest heaven and Abraham on the sixth heaven. Anas said, “When Gabriel along with the Prophet (SAW) passed by Idris, the latter said, ‘Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother’ The Prophet (SAW) asked, ‘Who is he?’ Gabriel replied, ‘He is Idris.’ The Prophet (SAW) added, “I passed by Moses and he said, ‘Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother.’ I asked Gabriel, ‘Who is he?’ Gabriel replied, ‘He is Moses.’ Then I passed by Jesus and he said, ‘Welcome! O pious brother and pious Prophet.’ I asked, ‘Who is he?’ Gabriel replied, ‘He is Jesus.’ Then I passed by Abraham and he said, ‘Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.’ I asked Gabriel, ‘Who is he?’ Gabriel replied, ‘He is Abraham.’ The Prophet (SAW) added, “Then Gabriel ascended with me to a place where I heard the creaking of the pens.” Ibn Hazm and Anas bin Malik said: The Prophet (SAW) said, “Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers. When I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, ‘What has Allah enjoined on your followers?’ I replied, ‘He has enjoined fifty prayers on them.’ Moses said, ‘Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it.’ (So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, ‘Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.’ So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me: ‘Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it. So I returned to Allah and He said, ‘These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.’ I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, ‘Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.’ Then Gabriel took me till we reached Sidrat Muntaha (lote tree of the utmost boundary) which was shrouded in colors, indescribable. Then I was admitted into Paradise where I found small (tents or) walls (made) of pearls and its earth was of musk.””

  25. From above: “(So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, ‘Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.’ So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me: ‘Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it. So I returned to Allah and He said, ‘These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.’ I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, ‘Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.’ Then Gabriel took me till we reached Sidrat Muntaha (lote tree of the utmost boundary) which was shrouded in colors, indescribable. Then I was admitted into Paradise where I found small (tents or) walls (made) of pearls and its earth was of musk.””

    —> Muhammad has spoken with God.

    P/S: Leave a reply . . . .

  26. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Ben,

    Being a prophet only means that he was sent by God to tell the people the word of God. The Prophet Jeremiah, for example, begins his speech: “Listen to the word of the LORD, O house of Jacob! All you clans of the house of Israel, thus says the LORD” (Jer 2:4-5). Now, Jesus is a prophet because he speaks the word of God. But he is more than an ordinary prophet like Jeremiah. He is the Word of God Himself:

    ” In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He was in the beginning with God.33 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be…And the Word became flesh 9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.1510 John testified to him and cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’”16 From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace, 1117 because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (Jn 1:14-17).

    Jesus is the Father’s only Son. We only became adopted sons of God if we believe in His Son. The Sonship of Christ is unique. Christ is God. He was the Word who was in the beginning with God. So Christ is not just an ordinary prophet who speaks God’s words. Christ is God’s Word Himself Who Became Man. That is why, during the Transfiguration when Christ showed His glory as God’s Only Son, the Father said:

    “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” (Mt 17:5)

    Listen to the parable of the tenants:

    (A) man planted a vineyard, leased it to tenant farmers, and then went on a journey for a long time.10 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenant farmers to receive some of the produce of the vineyard. But they beat the servant and sent him away empty-handed. 11 So he proceeded to send another servant, but him also they beat and insulted and sent away empty-handed. 12 Then he proceeded to send a third, but this one too they wounded and threw out. 13 The owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I shall send my beloved son; maybe they will respect him.’ 14 But when the tenant farmers saw him they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Let us kill him that the inheritance may become ours.’15 So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. (Lk 20:9-15)

    God is the owner of the vineyard. The tenant farmers are the Pharisees who rule the Jews. The servants are the prophets. The beloved Son is Christ Himself. The servants has no blood relation with the landowner, but only the Son. In the same way, the prophets before Christ has no relation to the the Father, only the Son does. If the Father is God, then the Son must be truly God.

  27. Pingback: Is Jesus just an ordinary prophet as claimed by Muslims? « Monk’s Hobbit

  28. ben says:

    QMSJr,

    Are u a Catholic? If u are, is Jeremiah Book also included in ur Bible? If yes, we know u believe that Jesus died for our sin, but, can u explain this verse, Jeremiah 31:29-31, w/c says that ‘everyone must die for their own sin’??

    One more, u said “Mohammed never talked with Moses and Elijah.” (August 30, 2010, in this thread), well well . . . didn’t u know that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) once lead a prayer with the previous prophets behind him (pbuh)? Wew! Careful with ur words buddy.

  29. Quirino M. Sugon Jr says:

    Ben,

    Thanks for the correction. I don’t read the Quran. I won’t argue with you on the Quran. Let just talk about the Bible.

    If you were thrown overboard on a ship and you do not know how to swim, you shall surely sink and die. Now, in case somebody throws you a rope to pull you out of the water, you can only be saved if you hold on to the rope. But if you still do not hold on to the rope, you shall surely sink and die.

    The salvation offered by Christ through his death is the rope of salvation. Those who cling to Christ and believe shall be saved. Those who refuses to cling to Christ shall die on their own sins and suffer the fires of hell.

  30. jose miguel salvador says:

    nangamuti na ang muslim ! sa kangkungan na pinulot !

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